Curse

Saider maul · May 16, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swinging Fists

What if... the current alliance that held Cavalon was overthrown and the alliance that overthrew them opened up the elite mission to all? Wouldn't that be nice ?

Perhaps a grateful community, in the interest of keeping the elite mission available to all, would donate faction to the controlling alliance so that the "monopoly" guild would never get it back ? Then it would be somewhat community owned and all would be able to enjoy it...

Yes, I think that would be nice.

Would you contribute faction to make this come true?

How about if that new alliance refused to allow any of the current controlling guild members into the mission. Then that alliance would break up and would no longer pose a problem to this idea.

Wouldn't that be nice ?

Edit by Savio:
I went over and deleted the last four pages' worth of inter-alliance fighting, and I don't care to go back over the other six pages. I'm leaving this thread open because it still has some valid discussion about elite missions, and I'm also tired of closing every discussion thread about elite missions because anti-alliance and pro-alliance people flood them with their flaming.

I'm being lenient this time, but be warned: any more alliance vs alliance crap posted and I will start warning and banning.

This just goes to show what a bad idea alliance control is.
I know the theory is good... however it allows the pvp/faction farming control the accessability of PvE players who give squat about who luxon and kurzick are or what they stand for.

I know anet is trying to compete with the top rpg's but please dont duplicate their mistakes. Give access to everyone. make it even.
I think factions is different not so much hard. skills were a joke aand grouping engines are not improved nor has the market. All of which was promised in the expansion. I will give it some time and own 2 godly accounts. if in about 2 months it doesn't change or they do anything else to make pvp more controlling over pve ..... I will Go to Ebay which my 1yr long efforts and utilize the benifit to invest in another game.

its rediculious. and savio we have had bouts, we have had intelligent disgussions but this does show bad ideas are in play here and need drastic attention. alot of promises or, insinuation lets say that were not fulfilled, skills previewed that were highly and poorly manipulated, a 80% of new skills listed are a joke and now politics.

Please its a game let people enjoy it not drive it like its a job. i understand earning what you acheive but to allow others to keep parts of the game away from anyone else?

and savio Ty so much for your tolerance. this is a hot, legitamat, near conspiracy theory topic.lol

I have to say one of the poorest implimented political systems i have ever seen in a game. blows WoW's politics out the window.

Hunter Sharparrow · May 16, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

The titles are not bad ideas for earning access, but it's still time over skill for most of those skills.

The cartographer title: Load up running skills and fly
Wisdom Title: Port Sledge, here I come.
Survivor Title: Umm, Mr/Ms level 20 can I follow you around for awhile?

Just a few examples there, but they are all "rewards" for just playing with the game rather than playing the game. Fun to have, but shouldn't be counted towards anything... still want my W/Me to get the drunkard title. hehe

Very true. Not all titles require skill and can be done easily. Almost in a farming manner. So there would have to be carefull selection by anet on which ones.

Having a quest is a good idea. Again though it would take carefull planning for anet to come up with the quest. If not they could end up designing a quest that can be ran through.

Just comes down to carefull planning.

Quote:

Every single person argung "We paid for 100% of the content of the game, we should have access to it" is based on the false assumption that you don't have access.

Well lets see, if I went on the game right now I probably wouldn't be able to get in. Depends, of course, on who has control in which case I can go to the international district and ask to go in. But who am I asking? Another player. Not anet, not myself (for lacking the skill at the game) but another player.

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First, ANYONE can gain access, if you simply don't mind joining one of the controlling alliances. There is nothing stopping you from doing so. The fact that you can get into the Deep and camp there is also a side effect, but possible, depending on who controls Cavalon.

Ok to join an alliance it requires permission from the alliance you are joining. These alliances usually come at a cost of devoting a % of faction to control of the place. In my case the guild I am in not many people are in it to begin with and those that are only about 5 max still play. So tell me which alliance would take us? No I am not going to quit the guild I'm in either. Me and my wife bought the game to play together and we both formed this guild together. The other members are online friends who we play other games with. Not to mention I should be forced into an option just to have the access to the full content of the game that I (as well as the rest of you) paid for. How about leaving the options as just that, options.

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There is zero difference between Deep/Warrens and FoW/UW. Unless your side had favor, you could never gain access to those areas. If your particular region had real issues gaining favor, you could simply switch to the controlling region and enter at will. The fact that you had to pay 1K to enter - isn't that holding some people back as much as paying some Black Blade member 10K to get a ride, but on a smaller scale?

There is a difference between them. Both are flawed yes but there is still a difference. With UW and FoW you need favor which is something you aquire in PvP. First PvE content shouldn't be restricted by PvP and vise versa. Second, to get the favor in PvP requires skill. You can't farm for favor, you can't run to get it, you have to fight for it and fight against other people at that. This is something that takes skill. Sure for factions your in a state of PvP but that is merely who has enough free time to farm. Atleast for favor time isn't really a factor. Sure you need the time to complete a match but that's it. That's all part of the flaw anyway. The point is to get favor you have to be more skilled than your opponent where for factions you just need to have more free time to farm the faction. That is a major difference.

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Finally, a publisher will sell you the game, that doesn't mean they have to make it so easy for you to be able to FINISH it. Does a particularly hard game that has an incredibly hard end of game mission, one you can't seem to finish mean that the publisher has the responsibility to the consumer to make it easier? If you can't finish it and gain access to the "100% of the content" do you deserve to sue the company? Hardly.

Key word there is publisher. Not other player but publisher. What you stated there is an individuals lack of skill at the game to over come the difficulty. There is nothing hard about getting faction you just need to have more time than the next person. Well this isn't the case for alot of people. Most players have lives that need attending to and can't do the hours of faction farming that is required. What people have been suggesting is either to change the system or add to it an alternate way in that actually tests a person's skill at the game. What you said is an example of that. Not being able to finish a game or reaching the end because it is too hard is a measure of a person's skill at the game. This access to the elite missions is nothing more than who has the most time to farm wins. Nothing hard about it but just impossible for alot of players. This is what is meant by being able to have access to 100% of the content that we paid for with the only thing holding a person back is that person's skill at the game.

Quote:

But tossing around words like "Lawsuit" is just incredibly dumb. That's simply just jingoistic bluster without merit.

The following is a true story.

A woman bough a cup of coffee from Tim Hortan's on their way to work. While trying to drink the coffee along the way while at the same time driving she spilled the coffee onto herself and burned herself. She sued the company for burning herself. Apperantly the coffee was too hot. So now they have a waring on the cups that say "caution hot".

Tell me where the merit in that is? This is probably the same type of person who would have turned the vehicle around and b*tched out the employees if the coffee was cold. The last I checked, coffee is hot.

So when a company advertises their product they have to advertise the truth. No they don't have to advertise the whole truth and how they get the message across is up to them (note some ads have really small print or in audio ads the person speaks the fine print really fast). However the laws are clear and when they advertise something they can not go against the claims in the ad. So if there are people out there that would sue a company for their own clumbsiness then you can guarantee that someone will try and sue for the false advertising.

Stabber · May 16, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

The following is a true story.

A woman bough a cup of coffee from Tim Hortan's on their way to work. While trying to drink the coffee along the way while at the same time driving she spilled the coffee onto herself and burned herself. She sued the company for burning herself. Apperantly the coffee was too hot. So now they have a waring on the cups that say "caution hot".

The above is not a true story. In fact, it's a false retelling of a true story that has achieved the status of urban myth. Read the facts for yourself, but the gist is that the lawsuit was because the coffee was hotter than is safe for human consumption (remember: the woman in question suffered third degree burns) and the vendor (Mc Donald's, not Tim Hortons) was found to be in violation of safety guidelines. Another important fact to remember about this story was that the woman in question was almost 80.

Sorry for the tangent.

Jagflame · May 16, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

The main reason I don't support earning access through titles or completed missions/quests is because they have nothing to do with alliances or guilds, which is what I think elite missions should aimed at. Working together with your guild/alliance to earn access is what elite missions should promote.

Quote:

Well lets see, if I went on the game right now I probably wouldn't be able to get in.

EDIT: Is name-calling really necessary? -Swampgirl

So if you can't get to Shiro when you first turn on the game that means he's inaccessible and ANet lied to you?

Quote:

You can't farm for favor

Lol, yeah you can. Using IWAY is usually referred to as "fame farming". So yes, you can farm HoH.

Quote:

Not being able to finish a game or reaching the end because it is too hard is a measure of a person's skill at the game

Many players take an extremely long time to finish the game due to lack of free time spent playing. It also usually takes time to become skillfull at anything, GW is no exception. So time definitly can influence pretty much any variable in GW.

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Nothing hard about it but just impossible for alot of players.

Erm... You do realise how easy it is to join an Alliance that has millions of faction? Unless you're notoriously hated by all of them, you can probably accomplish it in less than 10 minutes.

Quote:

However the laws are clear and when they advertise something they can not go against the claims in the ad.

Every ad I have seen states that elite missions will be accessible by the top alliances, not the general population...

EternalTempest · May 16, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

The truth is that after the reaction as a whole has caused the dev team to change there mind after it was implemented.

This could be for a lot of reasons, too many compliants (from the population as a whole), it's not changing hands as much as they want, certain guilds may be getting it all the time (not sure on this).

Now to calm down those that don't want this change, they will most likely come up with something to counter balance it (how well it works, is yet to be seen).

As a pve in a "friend" guild, I will never see the elite area's as it stands. I would like this change and it makes sense to me, I won't lie about that. That being said, I am having fun with Factions as it is w/o access to the elite area's.

There a lot of things that the dev's invisioned and based on the how players play or was vocal about was changed.

Dev could change there mind because the actually result is not there intenet, or the response by the community was not was expected.

If you played C1 since launch, Anet has changed a large amount of things"
Keyless chests - removed
Attribute Refund Points - removed
Moving "core" pvp to the battle isle
Chaning TOAK from a PvP to a PvE zone
Creating Green items to offest gold, despite collector's in place
Changing how AOE works in PvE
To name a few

master chief matt · May 16, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Edit by Savio:
I went over and deleted the last four pages' worth of inter-alliance fighting, and I don't care to go back over the other six pages. I'm leaving this thread open because it still has some valid discussion about elite missions, and I'm also tired of closing every discussion thread about elite missions because anti-alliance and pro-alliance people flood them with their flaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GwG Forum Guidelines
Personal attacks and flames between guilds and members of those guilds will not be tolerated. Do not, under any circumstances, make an insulting or derogatory post towards another guild or you will be banned and anyone else known to be in your guild will recieve a one day temporary ban. If you want to fight, fight in game and keep it off our boards.
I'm being lenient this time, but be warned: any more alliance vs alliance crap posted and I will start warning and banning.

ok, so thats whats posted on the first post in this thread, i can understand vulgarity and being warned/banned, thats totaly understandable and im not arguing banning people who say things like "&$%@ the black blades", or "$%@& master chief matt", thats rude and ignorant, and doesnt belong in the forums.

what i dont agree with however, is warning/banning people for posting how they feel about a guild or person if there is no vulgarity. and i am not alone in this either, i believe the authors of the bill of rights agree with me to when they put in the whole first amendment right to free speach.

again, if you go on the forums saying this and that about a guild/person for no reason, thats pointless. but if you say something that is pertinant to the topic, and free of vulgarity i believe it is covered by this amendment and censorship of it has been proven wrong and illegal by the supreme court. I am a government and politics major and know this amendment and court cases surrounding it very well

EternalTempest · May 16, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

what i dont agree with however, is warning/banning people for posting how they feel about a guild or person if there is no vulgarity. and i am not alone in this either, i believe the authors of the bill of rights agree with me to when they put in the whole first amendment right to free speach.

again, if you go on the forums saying this and that about a guild/person for no reason, thats pointless. but if you say something that is pertinant to the topic, and free of vulgarity i believe it is covered by this amendment and censorship of it has been proven wrong and illegal by the supreme court. I am a government and politics major and know this amendment and court cases surrounding it very well

I think it falls in to the same vein about not posting hay X player ripped me off. There is no way to verfy a situation via chat in a forum and can be used to slander (wrong or right).

Most people take pride in there guilds, and there circle of friends so when someone goes X sucks (nicely or not) there going to respond back and not all members can control them selves.

We aggreed to moderation when we signed up on the forum and if there was no moderation, the quality of "content" would go down very quick. On a side note, this forum is used by multiple countries and there's a chance the server is not even located in the USA for that matter. But the main thing is we aggreed to the Usage of the forums with the moderation clause.

Even I've had some of my posts delted because I lost sight of the goal of a thread (while being nice/civil).

Ellipson · May 17, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

I edited my post because a moderator edited the original, quoted post.

Back on topic, Anet is working on this, according to the dev forum. Isn't that the end of the debate?

Swehurn · May 17, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

We're back on topic now....let us keep it that way please. Thank you.

Edrina Spellweaver · May 17, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

It seems that the disscussion of this topic can finally be ended.

As of 7:00PM CST, The Crusaders have taken over control of Cavalon.

And, as promised, they are promptly ferrying people into the Deep, free of charge.

I am not mad in the slightest. I am glad that instead of whining about it, they DID something about it. They have control and can do as they wish. The elite mission is now available to all.

Perhaps now we can fight the Kurzicks instead of each other?

Saider maul · May 17, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

i find it funny they try to award PvP the rule of PvE towns. yes faction is earned, but its not fair or right to intermingle the 2 game atmospheres and allow one to control the other.

Like I said if this interferes with my game playing after things root. I will simple cash in my chips and play something else. if repeat buisness and longevity (sp) means nothing to anet and they do not listen to their patrons to a point that it manipulates the way the game has to be played then they don't deserve our buisness and it will be their downfall.

But as its a know fact history repeats itself i only expect anet to make factions control ( ie manipulation is a better word ) worse and more political to a point youl have to invest more time into the game then normal recreation allows thus slowing your progression and enjoyment thro the PvE atmosphere.
either way they listen and i get to enjoy all of factions once my entire guild is rooted,.. or they dont and I cash in for about 700$ on ebay to kick something else off with.lol

anet you really screwed this one up. Nows a good time to make a speedy PR move to save face. the community is not pleased.

Jagflame · May 17, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

The discussion is not swayed by whether or not TC has control over Cavalon. The issue is not over whether or not TC controls it, it is over whether elite missions should be free or not.

Saider maul · May 17, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

lol which ever side has control they dont need to be able to lock the world out.

Loviatar · May 17, 2006, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saider maul

lol which ever side has control they dont need to be able to lock the world out.

actually if the elite only side gains control again and starts ferrying people out as fast as they can it only makes more people who have had a taste of it willing to join in and help kick the elitests out again.

a few cycles of that and the free entry alliance will hold for a very long time simply because of the resentment the elite group caused.

Jagflame · May 17, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

actually if the elite only side gains control again and starts ferrying people out as fast as they can it only makes more people who have had a taste of it willing to join in and help kick the elitests out again.

It also locks that alliance into place as in control of Cavalon. This eliminates all competition for the position and does not allow other alliances the chance to hold the capital. I for one am against this.

In my opinion opening the mission to everyone for free is just sacrificing a bad system for a worse one.

Loviatar · May 17, 2006, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagflame

It also locks that alliance into place as in control of Cavalon. This eliminates all competition for the position and does not allow other alliances the chance to hold the capital. I for one am against this.

In my opinion opening the mission to everyone for free is just sacrificing a bad system for a worse one.

just out of curiosity, if they let you in along with the others what complaint do you have?

if they hold it permanently but you are free to enjoy the content in your own private instance what difference does it make?

it is just as hard and they are not taking your drops so i fail to see what you lose in the bargain.

VorianVader · May 17, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Look its simple, if an alliance locks out the majority of the gamers from a certain area simply because they cannot compete in the faction grind due to the fact that they have a real life and cant spare the time.........well those people will support any other alliance which will let them in. In this case, a lot of people I know wouldnt mind donating to TC to help them in keeping their faction up.

Is it bad or uncompetitive? who knows and who cares. I agree with Loviatar that it doesnt make a difference as to who holds a town if everyone is given access to an elite mission by the controlling alliance.

Besides the mission, what are the perks for holding the town huh? your alliance's name when you zone into the town? crappy fireworks? ego boost?

Do you think for a second that people are in awe of an alliance that is in control of a town? absolutely not, why should I be in awe of mindless faction grinding by kids who have no responsibilities in real life. I personally chuckle when I see all that crap flying around in local chat about "my alliance is better than yours because we own this town" and am amazed about the things that turn on 12 year old kids with too much time on their hands.

The thing that I do respect is an alliance letting people into closed areas which they didnt have to........simply because, it shows that they understand that the game is about relaxing and having fun and not about pissing off the majority of the community.

Dr Strangelove · May 17, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

The above is not a true story. In fact, it's a false retelling of a true story that has achieved the status of urban myth. Read the facts for yourself, but the gist is that the lawsuit was because the coffee was hotter than is safe for human consumption (remember: the woman in question suffered third degree burns) and the vendor (Mc Donald's, not Tim Hortons) was found to be in violation of safety guidelines. Another important fact to remember about this story was that the woman in question was almost 80.

Sorry for the tangent.

Massively off topic here... but isn't it physically impossible for coffee to be hotter than 212 degrees Fahrenheit? How do you get 3rd degree burns from boiling water? I boil water all the time and have somehow found my tea to be safe for human consumption. At any rate, she spilled coffee on herself and burned herself. If I stab myself with an overly sharp spork at Taco Bell, can I sue? Personal responsibility for the win.

Back on topic, it wouldn't hurt at all to have expanded access. I could see how the current model could work if there was an elite mission for each controllable city, but with only 2 of them doesn't it make a heck of a lot of sense to do it along faction lines? At least that way they can actually mean something...

Drakyn · May 17, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Amen, VorianVader. About time someone said something that actually matters and makes sense. I don't give a rat's butt about who owns what town. I don't care how many members are in your guild or how "uber" ( another dumb-ass word ) your armor is. I don't care how many green weaps you have, how great your skill bar is. I don't care bout how many hours you put into the game or the fact that your character storage has a million gold because you sweated your butt off farming and selling for it. I don't care how good your guild is in PvP or PvE. WHO CARES????? honestly.

I will tell you what I do care about. And it's simple. I enjoy the game. I enjoy it more when I get online with my guild members and play it with them and we improve ourselves. We have fun. That is all that matters. That is what I will remember as I get to know them on a personal level. I will not remember who was charging 1k to let me into a locked area. I will remember that it was BS though. I will want to play all the areas on the map when I get to them. If the elite mission is opened up forceably, then I am for it. I appreciate your time and effort for doing this because I would like to get in to play it without being charged for it. I realize the balance will tip here and there. So be it. But to hold sway all the time??? Get over yourselves. You will get no reward. If you want to accomplish something more worthwhile than just pissing off the GW community, go PvP your butt off and actually become #1. Now there's something I bet you couldn't do.

Argen · May 17, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagflame

It also locks that alliance into place as in control of Cavalon. This eliminates all competition for the position and does not allow other alliances the chance to hold the capital. I for one am against this.

In my opinion opening the mission to everyone for free is just sacrificing a bad system for a worse one.

The Crusaders' Alliance has not "locked" Cavalon and probably will not ever "lock" it. We have had quite a struggle against the Black Blades today, yesterday, so on and so forth; they have taken and held it, we have taken and held it. I doubt any Alliance will "lock" Cavalon unless the other side simply gives up, something I don't think will happen quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edrina Spellweaver

It seems that the disscussion of this topic can finally be ended.

As of 7:00PM CST, The Crusaders have taken over control of Cavalon.

And, as promised, they are promptly ferrying people into the Deep, free of charge.

I am not mad in the slightest. I am glad that instead of whining about it, they DID something about it. They have control and can do as they wish. The elite mission is now available to all.

Perhaps now we can fight the Kurzicks instead of each other?

Thanks for the invitation and nod of respect, many of us look forward to taking our fight to the Kurzicks.